ANGELA: There were many times when my parents would ask me, like, “do you want to stop practicing?” And in my mind, I thought, “of course!” Like, “I don't want to do all of this anymore.” I'm practicing two hours of meditation a day, one hour of studying the Fa, going to work, to three part-time jobs, and also being a full-time college student, and volunteering every Sunday at this organ harvesting booth.

LIZ: A sentence no one has ever said before.

TYLER: I feel like this is a good time for some organ harvesting fun facts.

LIZ: I was just waiting for you to say that.

TYLER: Because nothing says trivia time like stolen kidneys. Did someone say stolen kidneys?

LIZ: You did, Tyler. You did.

TYLER: Haha, Because it's estimated that over 7,000 kidneys are illegally obtained each year and sold on the black market. Anyone want to take a guess how much a good kidney goes for? Low miles, good interior, still has that new kidney smell. Come on!

LIZ: Okay, who would be a person needing to buy a kidney from the black market?

TYLER: Someone who has kidney failure. In fact, only 10% of organ needs are met in the world, actually. So…

LIZ: So there's like this underground organ...

TYLER: Right. A black market for organ sales.

LIZ: Um, $10,000?

TYLER: $10,000? Come on, that's like, that's like a spleen number. Come on!

LIZ: Oh, kidneys, right? Because if you're going to die, right. Okay. $80,000?

TYLER: Very close. About $200,000 is what the going rate for a kidney on the black market is. Give or take.

LIZ: Can you put it on credit? Like, can you...

TYLER: Nope, that's cash in a briefcase, or Bitcoin, most likely. There is no payment plan for a kidney. And 17 people each day die from needing an organ transplant and failing to get one. Falun Gong claimed that over 60,000 kidneys are harvested every year.

LIZ: Which is why Angela spent her perfect Santa Monica Sundays at a kidney booth. Also a line no one has ever said. Haha!

TYLER: Haha! But all of this work and no play started to wear young Angela down.

ANGELA: I'm overwhelmed. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm really exhausted. I'm sure my parents were too. They were working full-time jobs and doing all of this at the same time. So every time they asked me, I really wanted to say “yes”, but I couldn't bring myself to because that would essentially be like saying “I want to die”. And I couldn't say that to my parents after everything they sacrificed for me. So it was an uphill battle.

 

LIZ: And of course, there were classic cult fear tactics at play here too.

ANGELA: Because we believe that people who leave Falun Gong will suffer immensely. Because you are reaping the benefits of Falun Gong, but you are not seeing it to the end. So basically, you are taking advantage of Master Li's kindness and compassion to save you. You are taking advantage of Master Li, and that's the biggest sin that you can commit. Like, if you truly believe in what Master Li says, that if you leave Falun Gong, you are reaping the benefits, and karma will come and get you. Any bad luck or illness that you face after Falun Gong, you might have that doubt of, “wow, is it because I left Falun Gong?”

TYLER: You know, anytime you are asking yourself this question, it may be quite likely that you were in a cult.

LIZ: Now, can we stop beating around the bush here and talk a little bit about Epoch Times, please?

TYLER: We sure can. Epoch Times for those who don't know, the Epic Times, that's spelled E-P-O-C-H, is a widely circulated newspaper that is known for pushing far-right narratives and conspiracy theory in recent years, and surprisingly, was founded by this cult. So it's Falun Gong propaganda disguised as news.

ANGELA: Okay, so the Epoch Times started, I'd say around the same time Shen Yun started. My mom had been working at the Epoch Times full-time. They paid her below minimum wage. But there was a loophole. It was all legal because they were like, “you know, the difference in salary is just a donation to the Newspaper. You agree to that, right?” And my mom was like, “yes, anything for Falun Gong.”

LIZ: Cult's setting up loopholes.

TYLER: There's always a loophole.